Ultimately, I think that the abolitionist way is the right way, for all reasons, ethical as well as health, but call me a cynic, I don’t believe that appealing on behalf animal welfare really appeals to the vast majority of people, especially when we have people out there who believe that “God gave us dominion over animals,” and that means that for their short time on earth they can be treated any way we deem fit. It’s obscene.

I think that the only way to make sweeping changes now is to do it in stages: showcase how the corrupted and ineffective system is poisoning everyone - vegans included. We’ve had spinach contaminated with e coli and peanut products tainted with salmonella because of the horrendous practices in the agribusiness industry.

Also, more physcians’ organizations need to come out more forcefully FOR vegan diets instead of those ridiculous studies paid for by the Dairy Council, The National Cattlemen’s Beef Association or the Pork Board. We have a few states here that have something called the “Veggie Libel Law” or Food Disparagement Law, under which, a food manufacturer can sue someone who makes a negative statement about their food. Quite literally, a physician’s organization would have to worry about going on the record saying, “Eat less beef, pork and chicken” instead of the less-inflammatory “Eat less animal-based saturated fats” when what they really mean is don’t eat the goddamn meat. It’s insane, it really is.

I think it’s a sad thing, but I have talked to many people about this and they really don’t seem to CARE that the meat they’re eating was once a living animal. They said that they’d be more likely to make changes in their diet only if it affected their health. Some people showed concern over the business practices, but not enough really to do anything: they still buy the same name brands, they’re still supporting the same few megalithic companies.

Now although they say that they don’t care, perhaps reading Slaughterhouse by Gail Eisnitz might make eating meat more revolting when they see the prices paid by both the animals and the workers. So, education is a necessary part of the process.

People have recently been asking me about my change and have been asking me for reading recommendations. It’s not my style to use the shock tactics that other vegan groups are notable for. In my opinion, that does more to give a negative connotation to veganism than it does any good by bringing people into the fold who otherwise wouldn’t be drawn to it. I’m doing my best to convert people, but subtly. I liken it to the anti-abortion protesters who would stand in front of clinics holding placards showing aborted fetuses on them. I’m willing to bet they made more enemies than converts.

If veganism were a cult whose goals were exclusion, then shock tactics and exclusionism would make sense, but if the aims are to eliminate animal suffering, particularly animals as food, then I’d think then the goal is to have as many people behind this drive as possible. This is not an issue in which the minority will rule, not when the opponents will make claims of a long cultural history of omnivorousness. There has to be widespread rejection of animals as food for this to work. If the mainstream public sees vegans as fringe eco-terrorist freaks, that is never going to happen.

I don’t think I’m missing out either. If anything, I’m finding greater content on my own than I would if I tune into a TV station.

One thing I enjoy with my TV is the “TV Choice On Demand” service which means that watching telly is not as passive as it used to be, so now I can switch it on and use it to inspire or educate me according to my preference. The old way was switch on the telly and wait for something useful to happen (and it rarely did).

Also, I love grabbing interesting movies and documentaries off the internet and watching them on my own time. There are some great DVDs on Veganism that would never be shown on terrestrial TV as well as other subjects that interest me too.

In short, it’s not what it used to be.

*goes off to peruse the goodies*

Thanks for commenting. Lots of food for thought. When it comes to bee keeping, the majority of keepers are small operations and do care for their bees reasonably. The problem is that the majority of honey is produced by a small number of agri-business producers, which is replicated across many agricultural models (intensive dairy production, battery eggs). I am intrigued by claims of organic when it comes to honey though, as who knows which flowers the bees have been visiting?

That’s the welfare issue. But, and this may be considered extremist by some, personally the issue for me is that we are stealing something from an animal that we neither need nor should be taking. Bees do not produce honey so that we can eat Cheerios any more than cows produce milk so we can eat dairy. And although there are models where welfare is better for animals, the exploitation element of another species is still there.

I totally get that the reality is far from the ideal and that organic conditions are better for kept animals (including insects) than intensive ones. Sure, there are dairy farms where cows get access to pasture between visits to the milking parlour, but the problematic of continuous pregnancy/lactation and the issue of “waste” male calves being sold to be raised as veal is still there. Likewise, even organic free range egg production systems necessarily produce unproductive male chicks which end up being killed. So animals ARE necessarily harmed.

I feel strongly that as a vegan the abolitionist position is where I stand. I don’t believe that animals should be exploited for human gain, full stop. That doesn’t mean that I don’t care about improving the lot of the animals which are currently captive, but that “better” is not about bigger cages, but empty cages.

Kate

Osteoporosis is a disease of age, eating habits and lifestyle. Smoking, drinking alcohol, eating too much protein, possibly drinking too many carbonated, acidic soft drinks, not eating enough fruits and vegetables of a wide variety, and not leading an active life are the causes. The more unhealthy our lifestyles the more we suffer from such diseases as we age.

I completely agree that there is no scientific or even anecdotal evidence that a vegan diet causes more osteoporosis than a typical western diet. In fact, I would think vegans would have less osteoporosis because of the wider variety of calcium, fluorine and phosphorus sources that build and maintain strong bones. Vegans also tend to be healthier in general because they have a far better attitude about taking care of themselves. I’ve never met a medically obese vegan.

Osteoporosis seems to strike taller, more slender women earlier than shorter, stockier women, but stockier women are not immune. I have an unusual family history in that my father had osteoporosis in his early 50’s. My mother didn’t get it until her mid-60’s. My dad had an extremely poor diet growing up and he smoked for 50 of the 60 years of his life. My mom is tall and very slender and grew up eating out of the family victory garden her entire childhood and adolescence. My mom’s parents had a garden before WW II and kept it their entire lives. It was always at least 1 acre and there were a large variety of vegetables and some fruits, like berries that grow on bushes, a variety of melons, and nut and fruit trees. I also kept our family garden, and find it distasteful to have to pick out produce that is lower in nutrients and doesn’t even taste very good from a supermarket if I don’t make it to the farmer’s market. That stuff is also questionable because I didn’t grow it.

I don’t have time for a full garden anymore, working two jobs and being a single parent. We grow a few things, but I miss a full garden. There is a Satsuma tree growing in the ditch by our house, and I send my son to pick it clean every fall before the other teens get to it and use the fruit for projectiles.

Back to cow’s milk. A lot of races become lactose intolerant after age 5 or so. Many Asians cannot tolerate cow’s milk or milk products. Many people of African or Middle Eastern descent also have little to no tolerance for cow’s milk or milk products. It seems those who tolerate cow’s milk into adolescence and adulthood are mostly of Northern European descent. I’m just summarizing some facts I know. I have no theories as to why these are true.

If I remember correctly, babies on cow’s milk formula or even soy formula are not as healthy and tolerant of a wider variety of foods as they grow up. Breast fed babies are healthier, and those breast fed for a year or close to it are much healthier. It’s funny, but our pediatrician supported me breastfeeding for a full year or longer if I wished. Son had a low birth weight (that runs in the family, too). He was 5 lb 2 oz at birth and weighed 25 lb by his first birthday. My milk was very high in the fat he needed to put on weight and grow. Not only is human milk better for babies, the baby’s own mother’s milk is formulated by the mother’s body for that baby’s needs. Mother nature knows what she’s doing a lot of the time.

One thing I’ve seen in my son’s generation is those who were breast fed, didn’t have any food introduced until 4 months, and with no cow’s milk introduced until 12 months of age or later are healthier, stronger, taller and of normal weight. They also seem to have far fewer allergies, especially to foods, and far less asthma. Normal weight means no type II diabetes early, too.

Breast feeding seems to start kids off by eating when they are hungry and stopping when they are satisfied. My son still eats when he’s hungry and stops when he’s satisfied. He may eat again in 2-3 hours, but he doesn’t ever stuff himself. Breast feeding and eating on demand seem to help ingrain a healthy lifestyle from day one. I’ve never brought up the concept of cleaning up his plate. That’s the biggest reason I have weight problems. I overeat. I’ve started using smaller dishes and that’s helped a lot.

I’m not a vegan, or even a vegetarian, but I eat a lot more fruits and vegetables, whole grains, soy and nuts, and less meat than most meat-eaters. I’m in much better shape than a lot of my friends who are up to 10 years younger. If I exercised more, I would be stronger and slender, but I’m active.

I think a vegetarian diet and a vegan diet in particular are far healthier than the junk most everyone else eats, and for that reason alone it would be a good switch to make. McDonald’s and other fast food joints sell extremely little that a vegan could eat (bottled water, tea coffee?), and staying away from junk food would go a long way in improving the health of westerners. Obesity, diabetes, cancer and heart disease are far bigger problems than osteoporosis and not as easily managed.

Sorry this is so long. I got off on a few tangents. I hope they are helpful ones,
Sherri

I always thought that that was interesting, and it gave me the idea for a sci-fi type short story where scientists discover that some types of plants have a longitudinal sentience, but it’s over such a long time span that we can’t really see it in our own short lives. Then there’s an outcry from a new “extremist” group about not eating plants, and perversely, they decided that the most “humane” thing was to synthesize foods from petroleum.

Sort of like “Soylent Green,” but without the whole cannibalism aspect. I know, I know, I’m weird…

But onto the bees: a good friend of mine keeps bees. He has a massive colony. He practices what’s known as “organic bee-keeping.” The area where he lives currently has seen an alarming decrease in the bee colonies which has perplexed scientists, but so far his has actually grown over the past 5 years. He hopes that it’s because of his organic management techniques: he leaves the majority of the honey intact for the bees, he’s planted several kinds of trees and other plants which the bees particularly like nearby to induce the to stay in the area to pollinate his crops as well as the crops of his neighbors’ farm.

Also, organic beekeepers don’t believe in interfering with the bees’ natural reproductive processes like large-scale bee-keepers do, as you mentioned above.

Now I, personally, don’t knowingly consume honey anymore, but I live in an omnivorous world. I have no illusions that we will be a vegan world anytime soon. It’s good to know that there are alternative, less-damaging ways of cultivating food that reduce the risk to animals. The same argument could be made for dairy products. There is no reason that the animals need to be harmed in the milking process for those people who refuse to give it up, but the current agricultural model we have now has so terribly gone awry that it guarantees a contaminated product.

Good lord, I’ve blogged in your blog!
Sorry!