Comments on: Renting rooms in a burning building? http://experimentsinlivingblog.com/111/renting-rooms-in-a-burning-building/ by Kate Saltfleet Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:21:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Religion is the opiate of the people. Discuss. « Experiments in Living http://experimentsinlivingblog.com/111/renting-rooms-in-a-burning-building/#comment-136 Religion is the opiate of the people. Discuss. « Experiments in Living Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:05:50 +0000 http://experimentsinliving.wordpress.com/?p=151#comment-136 [...] stretch marks and want your own version of the Waltons, you go on right ahead. But think about the environment, please. I digress. As far as I can see this multiplied fruitfulness benefits the church in [...] [...] stretch marks and want your own version of the Waltons, you go on right ahead. But think about the environment, please. I digress. As far as I can see this multiplied fruitfulness benefits the church in [...]

]]> By: katesaltfleet http://experimentsinlivingblog.com/111/renting-rooms-in-a-burning-building/#comment-132 katesaltfleet Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:43:58 +0000 http://experimentsinliving.wordpress.com/?p=151#comment-132 @HPP - I think if you are going to have children, then you really need to consider the environmental impact and raise them responsibly. I just think there are other ways I can help the environment without having my own :) @Donna V - if at some point we decide we want children, then I think that adoption will be come under serious consideration. @Frish - the "morality" of veganism??? Don't think I mentioned this. And the V of VHEMT stands for Voluntary, so to say it is "the only moral choice" is a little blinkered IMO. I think you just got a vegetarian bingo with the ol' "We'd be over run with animals" comment ;) @Joan Phillips - it is true that just because you raise your children a certain way doesn't mean they won't rebel. Having your own children is only one way to contributing to the future, and you don't have to be someone's parent to be an influence in their life. @HPP - I think if you are going to have children, then you really need to consider the environmental impact and raise them responsibly. I just think there are other ways I can help the environment without having my own :)
@Donna V - if at some point we decide we want children, then I think that adoption will be come under serious consideration.

@Frish - the “morality” of veganism??? Don’t think I mentioned this. And the V of VHEMT stands for Voluntary, so to say it is “the only moral choice” is a little blinkered IMO. I think you just got a vegetarian bingo with the ol’ “We’d be over run with animals” comment ;)
@Joan Phillips - it is true that just because you raise your children a certain way doesn’t mean they won’t rebel. Having your own children is only one way to contributing to the future, and you don’t have to be someone’s parent to be an influence in their life.

]]> By: Joan Philips http://experimentsinlivingblog.com/111/renting-rooms-in-a-burning-building/#comment-131 Joan Philips Wed, 16 Apr 2008 01:39:46 +0000 http://experimentsinliving.wordpress.com/?p=151#comment-131 Question for halfpintpixie: Were you raised by vegans? How many of the vegans that you know were raised by vegans? If your time was spent raising awareness instead of raising children, you could perhaps generate hundreds of vegans instead of a few. Question for halfpintpixie:
Were you raised by vegans? How many of the vegans that you know were raised by vegans? If your time was spent raising awareness instead of raising children, you could perhaps generate hundreds of vegans instead of a few.

]]> By: Frish http://experimentsinlivingblog.com/111/renting-rooms-in-a-burning-building/#comment-133 Frish Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:18:00 +0000 http://experimentsinliving.wordpress.com/?p=151#comment-133 While I wax amply on many issues, I have never taken on the "morality" of veganism. We are soon coming to the point that "meat" can be economically grown without any sentience involved, just a ham in a bottle...not many moral issues with that I suspect, but anyway... However, consider the following: If all humans, tomorrow, stopped eating meat... there would (for quite some time) be an excess of food available (if it could be distributed equitably) We could let the current cattle and pigs and chickens live long and die out...and no more pets, they eat way too much fish! and, we'd continue to breed... and, sooner than later (much much sooner) we'll have eaten our way off the planet (again!). As our technology overwhelms natural limits, we become subject to every natural consequence... FOOD RIOTS IN HAITI OVER THIS PAST WEEKEND 1,000,000,000 people in the world TODAY that don't have ready access to potable water. Ice Shelf Calving in Antactica (removing another barrier that keeps ice on the continent...when it moves off the continent oceans rise!) Vegan? Carnivore? MOOT POINT. Voluntary Human EXTINCTION is the only MORAL choice! The die off of humanity is inevitable, and not long in coming. Therefore, to minimize the suffering, no more children ought be born. At all. Voluntarily. By anyone...anywhere. Forever. While I wax amply on many issues, I have never taken on the “morality” of veganism.

We are soon coming to the point that “meat” can be economically grown without any sentience involved, just a ham in a bottle…not many moral issues with that I suspect, but anyway…

However, consider the following:

If all humans, tomorrow, stopped eating meat…
there would (for quite some time) be an excess of food available (if it could be distributed equitably)

We could let the current cattle and pigs and chickens live long and die out…and no more pets, they eat way too much fish!

and, we’d continue to breed…

and, sooner than later (much much sooner) we’ll have eaten our way off the planet (again!).

As our technology overwhelms natural limits, we become subject to every natural consequence…

FOOD RIOTS IN HAITI OVER THIS PAST WEEKEND

1,000,000,000 people in the world TODAY that don’t have ready access to potable water.

Ice Shelf Calving in Antactica (removing another barrier that keeps ice on the continent…when it moves off the continent oceans rise!)

Vegan? Carnivore?

MOOT POINT.

Voluntary Human EXTINCTION is the only MORAL choice!

The die off of humanity is inevitable, and not long in coming.

Therefore, to minimize the suffering, no more children ought be born.

At all.

Voluntarily.

By anyone…anywhere.

Forever.

]]> By: DonnaV http://experimentsinlivingblog.com/111/renting-rooms-in-a-burning-building/#comment-134 DonnaV Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:55:17 +0000 http://experimentsinliving.wordpress.com/?p=151#comment-134 Thanks for posting about this important topic! I'm vegan and my husband and I chose to adopt instead of reproducing, for the many environmental and social reasons that you touched upon. If you're looking to adopt a healthy baby, there are actually quite a few available around the world. If you want kids, please consider adoption! We know that adopting a dog from a shelter is better than breeding. When will we realize that the same holds true for humans? Thanks for posting about this important topic!

I’m vegan and my husband and I chose to adopt instead of reproducing, for the many environmental and social reasons that you touched upon. If you’re looking to adopt a healthy baby, there are actually quite a few available around the world.

If you want kids, please consider adoption! We know that adopting a dog from a shelter is better than breeding. When will we realize that the same holds true for humans?

]]> By: halfpintpixie http://experimentsinlivingblog.com/111/renting-rooms-in-a-burning-building/#comment-135 halfpintpixie Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:58:54 +0000 http://experimentsinliving.wordpress.com/?p=151#comment-135 Great post, lots of food for the old Monday morning thoughts! It's definitely an interesting question, whether or not to have children. It's often a hot topic in vegan forums with some people quite vehemently against those people they label "breeders". We have a daughter, as you know, who we are raising vegan and hopefully with some sense of ecological awareness (it's hard to tell at 17 months!). My way of looking at it is that, yes, the poor world is in a shocking state and very overpopulated, but I like to think (maybe delusionally) that by raising the next generation to have a conscious respect for the Earth, its animals and everything else, that we might in some way help dig our way out of this mess. By not "breeding" would we doom our ideals, our environmental care, our vegan ideals, would that all die with us? Would we be leaving our poor Mother Earth in the hands of children who are being raised with the sense of entitlement to big cars, big money and a big life, whatever the cost? I'm rambling, I know, but I do think that is one aspect worth considering, if every eco-minded, greenie, veggie, Earthy-type person in the world chose not to have kids, would the next generation care about anything worth caring about? Oh and I totally know where you're coming from about kids. I'm so not a kid person, littlepixie is fantastic (of course!), but other kids are just nuts, I'm not very much of a baby person :) Great post, lots of food for the old Monday morning thoughts! It’s definitely an interesting question, whether or not to have children. It’s often a hot topic in vegan forums with some people quite vehemently against those people they label “breeders”.

We have a daughter, as you know, who we are raising vegan and hopefully with some sense of ecological awareness (it’s hard to tell at 17 months!). My way of looking at it is that, yes, the poor world is in a shocking state and very overpopulated, but I like to think (maybe delusionally) that by raising the next generation to have a conscious respect for the Earth, its animals and everything else, that we might in some way help dig our way out of this mess.

By not “breeding” would we doom our ideals, our environmental care, our vegan ideals, would that all die with us? Would we be leaving our poor Mother Earth in the hands of children who are being raised with the sense of entitlement to big cars, big money and a big life, whatever the cost?

I’m rambling, I know, but I do think that is one aspect worth considering, if every eco-minded, greenie, veggie, Earthy-type person in the world chose not to have kids, would the next generation care about anything worth caring about?

Oh and I totally know where you’re coming from about kids. I’m so not a kid person, littlepixie is fantastic (of course!), but other kids are just nuts, I’m not very much of a baby person :)

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